To Those Who Support The Troops… The Few, The Proud & The Strong

June 29, 2007

One thing that Anthony, Brat, Kari and I all do, is Support Our Troops to the fullest. Not just by saying that we do, but by our actions as well. Those actions take many forms, be it, the stories we post here at ASM, being involved in Troop Support efforts, in our jobs (some of us are in the Military, others of us work with the military, others are former military, others just go above and beyond to provide support and comfort to our troops in any way possible), in every facet of our life. One thing we’ve repeated here time and time again and many of our readers have stressed as well, is that we don’t buy the “I support the troops, but not the war” adage. We don’t feel that you can truly support the troops, if you’re not supporting the job that they’re doing. We”ve argued that point with many people who’ve came to the blog to attempt to change our way of thinking. When I ran across this, I felt it was something that was appropriate to post here. It’s the thoughts of a Private in the Army Reserve and he speaks quite eloquently, the points we’ve been making here for quite some time. Though I realize it’s probably going to change what these people think, I still feel that this young man needs to be heard, and he WILL be heard here.

To the few, the proud, and the strong,

As the Iraq War grows in length, I find that every day the support for the troops in Iraq weakens. And with this weakening support for the troops, I think of a saying I saw not too long ago, “Hate the war, not the solider, we’re just doing our jobs.” But even so, there are people who walk among us, who think that our soldiers are doing evil in Iraq, when in fact the evil I am referring to is one that goes beyond the insurgency in Iraq. It is one that is our very own country. This evil I am talking about is the seeming hatred for our soldiers by certain groups who call themselves “Churches.” They stand in protest at the funerals of our fallen heroes, who deserve the right to rest in peace. As do these “church” members. However, what these evil doers don’t acknowledge, is that without the ultimate sacrifice of the young man or woman they are protesting against, they themselves would not be able to rest in peace when they die.

It is not only the above who refuse to support the troops, for there are many others also. These people walk among us every day, yet what they do is crippling this country. The people I am talking about are the anti-war protesters. The ones that speak out against what the American troops are doing in Iraq, the ones that wear shirts that have a picture of President Bush with a caption that reads “International Terrorist”, instead of a picture of Bin Laden. You may be asking yourself, “How they are crippling our country?” Well the answer is simple as this: each and every day they weaken the troops’ moral, and they cripple the will and strength of the cause.

The cause that without, we would not have this great nation to live in or the freedoms we have. There have been millions of Americans killed for this cause that we have been fighting for hundreds of years and that we will continue to need to fight for years to come. And with that, there will be millions of more lives taken. However, what they do not acknowledge is that the fact that without the ultimate sacrifice these men and now women have made, along with their families, they would not be allowed to wear those shirts, or say the things they say.

So to the few, the proud, and the strong who do support the greatest cause, the cause that keeps us free day after day, I am grateful. I am grateful for the fact that there are people like you that will help to take a stand against them. It sickens me each day to know that I am sworn to serve these people, the same as I am sworn to serve you. I can only hope that one day they will acknowledge that the oath that I and millions of others have taken are to protect there rights as well as yours equally, and that they will one day acknowledge that fact. Thank you for all you have done, all you do, and all I am sure you will continue to do, in this fight against those who don’t support the men and women who keep the American people free. Also thank you for your continued support of the soldiers, airmen, marines, and sailors.

© PV2 Zengerling, Richard J
U.S. Army Reserve DEP


124 Responses to “To Those Who Support The Troops… The Few, The Proud & The Strong”

  1. CavMom on June 29th, 2007 7:46 am

    I have found that the troops do have a large number of supporters.

    However, they are not nearly as loud and obnoxious as the antimilitary crowd.

  2. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 8:01 am

    Amen PVT. Zengerling.
    CavMom, I sooo agree!
    Thanks Terri for the good post!!

  3. brat on June 29th, 2007 8:30 am

    Thanks for this one Terri :)

    I AM working on “loud and obnoxious”!!!!!!!

  4. Terri on June 29th, 2007 8:41 am

    You’re right CavMom and like Brat, I’m working on being loud and obnoxious as well. LOL! It’s about time that WE made our voices heard loud and clear. Joining forces with GOE I’m sure will help to get our message out there Loud and Clear!!!!

  5. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 9:16 am

    Yeh, I like LOUD abd CLEAR!! Prefer to leave OBNOXIOUS to the “other” (minority) crowd!! :)

  6. Terri on June 29th, 2007 9:40 am

    Yeah but sometimes CommanderMom, in order to be heard loud and clear, you’ve gotta be a bit obnoxious and persistent.

  7. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 10:17 am

    Hmmm.. well, I can take loud, clear and persistent. :)lol. How obnoxious are we talkin? hehe

  8. Terri on June 29th, 2007 10:25 am

    Whatever it takes I guess. You realize what we might consider as persistent, the anti-war crowd would probably consider obnoxious, ya know? So it’s all good. LOL!

  9. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 10:41 am

    Yep. :)
    Well, I don’t see what I consider obnoxious to ever be here, with the “support crowd”, anyways. So, yeh, it’s all good!

  10. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 1:14 pm

    The fallacy underlying this entire post is the premise that one cannot support the the troops if they oppose the mission. The premise is an insult to many Americans and, I suspect, you all agree; notwithstanding, however, the comments to the contrary.

  11. Terri on June 29th, 2007 1:24 pm

    Actually Sharon, the majority of us here agree with this young man. Sorry if you can’t handle that.

  12. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 1:37 pm

    Consistent with your view of polls, Terri, what the majority of ASM contributers think is irrelevant when contemplating the thinking of the populace as a whole.

    Regardless, it simply does not follow in logic or otherwise that one cannot support the troops if he or she does not support the war in Iraq.

  13. Terri on June 29th, 2007 2:17 pm

    Maybe not your logic but those of us here, and the other MilBlogs, and the majority of our troops, feel MUCH differently than you do Sharon.

  14. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 2:32 pm

    The “support the war or don’t support the troops” position is a bunch of crap, Terri, and you and everyone else at ASM know it.

    The position is specifically designed to confuse and abuse the feelings people have for the men and women in uniform. The position is specifically designed to make people feel guilty and question their own “patriotism” and particularly the “patriotism” of those opposed to the war. Yet the position is completely devoid of logic, and you know it!

    What a pity that BushCo apologists cannot come up with a better rationale to justify an immoral, unjust and illegal war that has gone from bad to worse from the outset. You should be ashamed of yourself every single time you suggest that one cannot support the troops if he or she refuses to support the war in Iraq.

  15. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 2:42 pm

    Well, I was sorry to have to leave the couple good discussions, here. I’m back and have to say thanks, and looks like you, (Terri) and SealPatriot took the words right out of my mouth. So I agree!

    VT~Don’t know what “populace as a whole” you see or are talking about, but it’s definatley not the same populace I see.

  16. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 2:43 pm

    oops definately (typo correction)

  17. Terri on June 29th, 2007 2:53 pm

    Oh so now you’re attempting to tell me what I know and don’t know! I call BULLSHIT on that one. Because you know what? I truly believe that if you don’t support our Troops mission, then you’re NOT supporting them, but instead attempting to further degrade the morale of those brave men and women. Sharon, as far as I’m concerned, you’re a waste of time and space. You should be the one ashamed of yourself, for the crap that continually spews from your fingertips.

  18. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 2:59 pm

    VT..NO it is not “support the war or Don’t support the troops”!!!!! Ok let me see….I will speak for myself, here, and say, it is NOT crap as you say. I feel it is a pretty complex issue. You have to dig and follow it down to the roots. And there the answer lies with simply listening to our soldiers/All servicemembers, the boots on the ground, the ones in the know, the ones that have been there, the ones that are there now, that know and see what is going on. The ones that are all saying, listen to me, we need to finish our job,what is being done is important, support me, support our nation.

  19. Terri on June 29th, 2007 3:04 pm

    Heaven forbid that people like Sharon, take the time to dig down and listen to those in the know. Heaven forbid they support the Troops or our Nation. Sadly enough, it’s people like Sharon that our troops are fighting for, to ensure that they can continue to do and say the things they do, that further degrades troop morale.

  20. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 3:19 pm

    No, Terri, heaven forbid that BushCo apologists feel the need to distort “patriotism” to the point where if one does not support Bush’s war in Iraq that they must necessarily not support the troops.

    I agree with C-Mom that the issue is very complex (maybe we can all stipulate to that). But going one step further, to boil that complex issue down to the statement that if one doesn’t support the war, then one doesn’t support the troops, is to take that very complex issue and make a mockery of it through distortion and oversimplification.

  21. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 3:31 pm

    No, VT my point is, to support them is to listen to them. And when those cry yank them out, I want them home,cut and run,despite what they(troops) are saying, that is NOT supporting them!!!!!! PERIOD!

  22. Terri on June 29th, 2007 3:32 pm

    The only one making a mockery of anything here Sharon is you. We’re telling you what we feel and what many, many of our troops feel and YOU JUST DON’T GET IT! Politics aside, (because I feel that the majority if not all politicians are only out for their own gain), since you are always attempting to steer the debate to politics, it boils down to supporting those who are willing to give their very lives so that all of us can continue to live and enjoy our freedoms, and in supporting them, I fully support their mission, whatever that mission might be. If you don’t like that sentiment, tough shit. There are many more people than what you even can fathom who feel the same way, including the majority of our Troops. Like it or not Sharon, that’s exactly the way we feel.

  23. Commandermom on June 29th, 2007 3:38 pm

    Vt, How many troops do you hear asking us/our nation/our CIC, please bring us home, get us outta here?? Do you think they are enjoying themselves over there, and having loads of fun??? Hell no, they are overcoming stuff that you nor I could even imagine. Don’t you wonder why?? So much more to say on this, but gotta run.

  24. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 3:59 pm

    I don’t get what, Terri? Your post asserts that one cannot support the troops and not the war. My point in response is the assertion is ridiculous, logically not supportable and, moreover, specifically designed to deny the flag, patriotism and everything else this nation stands for from those who disagree with the war.

    Your and others’ efforts are commendable for the support you show the troops, but you cannot deny patriotism to those who disagree with the war. And that is precisely the position you take with the absurd assertion that one who disagrees with the war must necessarily not support the troops.

  25. Terri on June 29th, 2007 4:15 pm

    If you chose to actually read my post Sharon, you would see that I posted something which was written by a young soldier who is currently deployed and whose sentiments I happen to agree with. If you don’t like that fact, then perhaps you should go back and join your pals at One Utah.

  26. Rob on June 29th, 2007 4:18 pm

    Well you can’t support one or the other, you support the troops/war or you don’t, and in your case, you don’t VTSharon, that’s fine, but don’t come knocking on our door when your spineless self needs help. We will just refer you to where all liberals get there help, the mental institution.

  27. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 4:32 pm

    Not only did you post something written by the young soldier, Terri, you stated expressly that you do not believe that one can support the troops but not the war (yes, I did read the post). Rob states as much in his comment above.

    Again, the position is absurd, baseless and without support in logic, and both you and Rob and everyone else that visits ASM knows it.

    Sorry to bring this to your attention, but you are not entitled to a monopoly on support for the troops just because you happen to support the war as well. Indeed, your ridiculous position in this regard would deny a parent who lost a son or daughter in the war from showing support for the troops simply because they disagree with the war.

    Earth to Terri, time for a dose of reality, common sense and decency!

  28. Rob on June 29th, 2007 4:40 pm

    Wow, now your talking in tongues VTSharon. Let me make this very clear for you, better yet, I’ll break it down barney style for you. YOU CANNOT SUPPORT THE TROOPS WITHOUT SUPPORTING THEIR CAUSE, you lame-brain. And for your Cindy Sheehan example, her son would of spit in her face for saying those exact things that spew out of your pie hole. If your so hell bent on this position, my home address is on my website, please indulge me, or others, I dare you to say it to my face. That’s what I thought, you don’t have a ounce of fight in you, you have committed yourself and ideology to flight. Therefore don’t compare yourself or any “support” you may be trying to give because are troops deserve so much better than your pitiful self.

  29. Terri on June 29th, 2007 4:54 pm

    That’s your opinion, which you’re entitled to, because troops for many years have fought and died to allow you to have your own opinion. In the same regard Sharon, I’m entitled to my opinion, and I could give a rats ass whether you think it’s absurd or not.

  30. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 4:55 pm

    Sorry to inform you Rob, but not all parents of dead soldiers killed in Iraq think or behave like Cindy Sheehan.

    Moreover, the fact that you are, apparently, incapable of crafting a responsive comment without resort to personal attack and fighting words suggests that you recognize the fallacy of the very position you seek to defend.

    Yet again, I am sorry to inform you of this, Rob, but you do not have, or deserve, a monopoly on patriotism and support for the troops merely because you happen to support BushCo’s war in Iraq. And you bring shame upon yourself each time you suggest the contrary!

  31. Terri on June 29th, 2007 5:02 pm

    Of course not all parents of Soldiers killed in Iraq are like Cindy Sheehag. Most are like Robert Stokely who honor their fallen sons and daughters by continuing to support the troops and the mission that their child believed in. Contrary to what you attempt to insinuate Sharon.

  32. Rob on June 29th, 2007 5:10 pm

    Oh really VTSharon, considering I am what you call a “troop”, I would suggest you listen up. I only resort to personal attacks, because you do. By stating that you support the troops but don’t support what they do (war), is an insult to me personally. Why don’t you get off your high horse or that little pedestal of elitism that you’ve inherently placed your self upon before you pass out or use that last little brain cell of yours. People (Liberals) like yourself are of the worst kind. Strut around saying, “oh, i support the troops”, oh really, what have you done? Let me guess, two things, Jack and Shlt. One other thing, if you had just a gram of patriotism in your lifeless heart, you would scurry along with a reply that I’m sorry, your right, I’m a disgrace to myself, my parents, and most of all, my country.

  33. Rob on June 29th, 2007 5:13 pm

    Oh, and another thing, when you pull that trick out of your hat, oh yes, that magical trick on how your going to inform us how the great VTSharon is so patriotic, then I might respond to your snied ass comment about patriotism and a board game.

  34. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 5:16 pm

    It really is fascinating, Terri, that you think you can rightfully place yourself in the position of a parent that has lost a son or daughter in Iraq and presume how they should feel about the war, regardless of what that son or daughter might have felt about the war. To do so is pathetic and self-serving.

  35. Terri on June 29th, 2007 5:21 pm

    Not once have I placed myself in that position, nor will I. I’ve not lost a child to war, though I have sent my child to the warzone. However I do know that many parents, Robert Stokely for example DO support the mission that their child gave their life for. So, Sharon, take your pathetic, self-serving self back to OneUtah where you’r opinions are wanted and agreed with.

  36. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 5:38 pm

    I’ll take that as a concession, Terri, that not all parents of dead soldiers feel as Stokely does and, moreover, a parent who lost a child in Iraq may rightfully continue to support that child’s former comrades and, at the same time, disagree with the war in Iraq. Thank you. After 30 comments, we have finally debunked the premise to the post!

  37. Rob on June 29th, 2007 5:43 pm

    What, no comment VTSharon, see, you have no validity to anything you say. Typical Liberal, uninformed, uneducated, and unpatriotic.

  38. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 5:47 pm

    I’ll respond to your comments, Rob, as soon as you provide something deserving of a response. FYI, hand-waving without addressing the issue is not deserving of a response.

  39. Terri on June 29th, 2007 5:50 pm

    Nope Sharon, no concession at all, because most of the parents of Fallen Warriors who I know of DO continue to support the mission that their child died for. So sorry to rain on your parade Sharon, but the premise of the post remains the same and my position remains the same. So save your thanks, because you’re wrong about what I’m thinking and feeling once again.

  40. Terri on June 29th, 2007 5:51 pm

    You’re one to talk about hand-waving without addressing the issue Sharon. That’s your consistently typical MO here as well as at ASP.

  41. VTSharon on June 29th, 2007 5:52 pm

    “Most” does not mean all - therefore, you impliedly concede my point. Otherwise, you deny a parent who lost a child in Iraq the right to support the troops and disagree with the war, which I doubt is the case.

  42. Terri on June 29th, 2007 6:09 pm

    Not once did I say all and sorry pal I do not nor will I concede your point. Word of advice, don’t try to ASSume that you know what I feel or think, why I feel or think the way I do, because you never will.

  43. CommanderMom on June 29th, 2007 8:32 pm

    Oh boy, sorry I had to leave again, but sheesh, ‘ol VT was ridiculously grasping at straws, there, trying to twist, turn and spin everything, 5 different ways till Sunday, but to no avail. Huh? Sheesh.

  44. Terri on June 29th, 2007 8:51 pm

    Yeah pretty typical for Sharon/Richard/CF/Nephi (or which ever persona he/she is today). Not a surprise really. Pretty much expeced.

  45. Rob on June 30th, 2007 1:48 am

    Oh sharon, please don’t mistake my hand waving for the greatest pleasure I could give you, the one figured salute… enjoy you daffy broad

  46. SealPatriot on June 30th, 2007 5:42 am

    VTSharon Says:
    “The “support the war or don’t support the troops” position is a bunch of crap, Terri, and you and everyone else at ASM know it.

    The position is specifically designed to confuse and abuse the feelings people have for the men and women in uniform. The position is specifically designed to make people feel guilty and question their own “patriotism” and particularly the “patriotism” of those opposed to the war. Yet the position is completely devoid of logic, and you know it!”

    SealPatriot’s Response; So is the argument that Bush is cause for the deaths of these soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines. That’s preposterous because the ones who kill our troops are the insurgents. The people who use these arguments to justify their position against the war are just manipulating the sadness that overcomes anybody who supports the troops regardless how you feel politically. At the same time, it couldn’t get any more malicious than to say that U.S. involvement in trying to contain Iraq’s violence is the one making things over there in Iraq worst when it is in fact not the cause. By The Way, I acknowledge that not all anti-war Americans are like this.

  47. SealPatriot on June 30th, 2007 5:52 am

    As far as what the soldier in this post is saying is concerned. This is merely his opinion, and there is no wrong or right way to go about it. As much as I prefer not to attack the position of those who disagree with me without making it personal or obnoxious about it. I wouldn’t find myself to far from where this Army Private is coming from in his opinion. I don’t always vocally tell this to someone who tells me that they “Support the soldier, but not the soldier’s efforts”, but if I were to go to Iraq and put on some boots and do some work, then come home and hear these people. I would probably feel like I am not being supported despite being told otherwise. Sorry VT, had to put my foot down on that one!

  48. Terri on June 30th, 2007 6:31 am

    Well said Ryan. Unfortunately, some people just can’t grasp that concept. But that’s okay, they have the right to their opinions, because of those very soldiers who’s mission that they chose not to support.

  49. brat on June 30th, 2007 7:19 am

    Sheesh you guys! I was having tech issues and couldnt post a comment. I come back and we have VT still as inarticulate as ever…Making ASSumptions and using non words like “impliedly”??????

    Ya know? I suggest, VT, that instead of flapping your jaws in here you go find something useful to do. Don’t waste your time taking Rob on - ANY point he makes - even before breakfast - has more validity than anything you have said.

    And don’t even insult the families of the fallen. To a one, every family I have seen and KNOW supports the troops AND their mission. For me, that THEY support the mission - that they GET what the mission is - means more to me than any of YOUR crap….(can I say ‘crap’ in here?????lol)

    I have far better things to do than waste my time with your bull VT - why, even last night when I couldn’t comment, I found things to do that support the troops AND their mission. When it comes to the mission, it doesnt matter to me what country you live in - has nothing to do with politics for me (unlike the democraps in America….)

    So crawl back in your hole VT. The rest of us have far better - USEFUL - things to do, than listen to your petty (and that’s being uninformed mind farts. See now? No “impliedly” there - just straight out fact. (And that’s before breakfast..)

    But I don’t need to resort to name calling.;) I am off to play with the BIG dogs. (That’s my Texan influence shining through….grin)

  50. Terri on June 30th, 2007 7:58 am

    Yes brat you can say crap here. I’m off for a few hours to help with a “Focus On Deployment” event and then on to look at some houses that Marty and I are considering purchasing. I’ll be back a bit later. I’m sure by then, I’ll have plenty to catch up on.

  51. VTSharon on June 30th, 2007 9:46 am

    With the exception of Seal Pat, who regularly appears able to think outside the ASM box, you folks both amaze and appall me.

    How you can take a statement - “I support the troops but disagree with the war in Iraq” - that many people feel applies to them and then strip those same people of their patriotism for feeling that way is pathetic and appears designed only to promote your own self-worth.

    Thankfully, you are in an ever-shrinking minority and have already been marginalized by America’s distaste for Bush’s war.

    And yes, Terri, you did impliedly concede my point, so get over yourself; especially, now, when sons and daughters of good folks are dying with ever-increasing frequency because of a war whose genesis lies in false pretenses.

  52. Rob on June 30th, 2007 11:44 am

    Terri, you need an ignore button on this forums for the uneducated, ill-minded people like VTSharon. I mean come on, can you be more blatent about your lack of supporting our troops, being patriotic in any manner for the greatest country in the world Sharon. Your a pure unadulterated disgrace to any patriot of America.

  53. VTSharon on June 30th, 2007 12:17 pm

    Thanks for the compliment, Rob. Again, your tendency to go on the attack without even a modicum of substance is revealing.

    By the way, this is what Bush himself stated on the very topic we are discussing:

    JOURNALIST: Do you have to support the war to support the warrior? I mean, if you’re one of those Americans that thinks you’ve made a terrible mistake that’s destined to end badly, what do you do? If they speak out, are they, by definition, undermining the troops?

    GEORGE W. BUSH: No, I don’t think so at all. I think you can be against my decision and support the troops, absolutely. But the proof will be whether or not [the Congress] provide them the money necessary to do the mission.

    Bush made these comments on February 14, 2007.

    You see, then, Rob, even Bush agrees with the point I am trying to make. Try not be so obstinate or, if that is too difficult, try to at least incorporate some substance into your comments.

  54. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 1:24 pm

    VT~ I believe, (just my stinkin lil’ 2 cents) it’s the ACTIONS of most,that come from those saying they support the troops, but not the war, that matter and speak the loudest. I don’t know how else to say that no one (this nation as a whole) wants or likes war! There are just different beliefs and/or understandings of the Whys of this war, and GWOT, 9/11, etc. There is a very unfortunate and dangerous divide going on, here, DUH,thanks to those who say,(paraphrase) oh no, you are not gonna attach my face to war, instead of being united and standing strong with their Country that gives them sooo much, and our Servicemembers that are willing to sacrifice sooo much to protect!!! It’s a simple and sad case of “biting the hands that feed them”. F’n spoiled and ungrateful brats. It’s simple, listen to them,(our military) listen to what is put out here, and other milblogs, that put out the info, that you are not gonna find elsewhere.(there are NO war-mongers, here) For F’s sake VT~who’s side do you want to be on? Our Country (USA) or the terrorists? I’ve heard you defend groups like code pink, that f’n “church” whatever the hell they call themselves, etc. Good God, VT, if you and yours don’t have the balls to strap it on, defend and protect, for the sake of your children, if you have any, and everyone’s and mine(don’t worry, we’ve got that covered), then, as far as I’m concerned, you can either stfu, OR open your ears and listen to those who are willing, and in the know, and give them the support they are ASKING for!!!! And sooo DESERVE!!!!! And nothing else, but that.
    There is no “concede” and/or “impliedly” here,as you say, pal. If you really believe that, then, you my friend, are in the wrong place, with a mistaken mentality. Again, I ask you, and never heard your answer, what have you ever sacrificed for another? I would like nothing more, than peace and security, here, and the world. So, what are YOUR answers? Huh VT? I am seriously growing tired of waiting, while the rest strap it on for you and your friends, regardless.

  55. SealPatriot on June 30th, 2007 1:53 pm

    You know, after hearing everything that goes on in the debates that political blogs have. I should point out that you can still disagree with somebody and not take it personally against them, but it seems that people like to make it personal anyway. That’s a shame, I don’t see any upsmanship earned when a republican comes out and points out how the liberals have changed their positions through time, or when a democrat comes out and tries to pin the deaths caused violent acts of terror on those who disagree with them even if that person is a democrat. In fact, our politics and the people that engage in them whether they be a voter or a lawmaker has done nothing but regress and undermine this country and everything it stands for. People are slandering each other and tarnishing one another’s reputation just to put them down or feel superior. It’s just selfish and wrong. May I remind all of you the definitions of each political party’s platform. Being a conservative means to believe in unity and to save or protect (with blood if had to). Being a liberal means “many”, this ideology is Greco (first applied in Greek law where a societies men rich or poor would discuss their communities problems and would be open to new suggestions on how to fix them) and was meant to protect the potential of all unique ideas regardless where it came from or who thought of it. Think of it, do any of the conservatives or liberals collectively as a whole still do these things or hold up to these standards? No they don’t, conservatives are giving up and aren’t saving or protecting, and liberals aren’t allowing many people who disagree their popular ideas to stay as liberals. If you ask me, nobody is living to the same standards anymore which would be fine if they were raising their standards. Unfortunately, they’re not. It’s shameful.

  56. VTSharon on June 30th, 2007 1:58 pm


    What I have or have not sacrificed for another is quite irrelevant to the discussion. Notwithstanding that, however, I will enlighten you in certain respects. I was too young for Vietnam and am too old for Iraq/Afghanistan; so no, I have not been to a war zone and would be unable to join the military even if I wanted.

    I have, however, served on ambulance squads (former EMT) and currently serve with a local Utah rescue organization, which regularly engages in search and rescue operations for folks who - either by stupidity or bad luck - wind up in life threatening situations. I pay taxes without objection; I donate what I can financially to various charities, and I volunteer substantial time to charitable efforts, all of which seek to lessen burdens on folks (including military service persons) who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances. These “actions” are by way of example, and do not represent the entire picture for me.

    If these “actions” make the case for my supporting terrorists and hating America, then so be it; if these “actions” make me ungrateful and spoiled, as you suggest, then so be it; and if these “actions” do not permit me to support the troops and, at the same time, criticize the very rationale for commencing the war in Iraq (the second war), then so be it.

    There’s your answer! Take it or leave it. And oh, by the way, I note the Bush quote that I provided for your edification and to support the premise of my argument got sidestepped in your rant. What’s with that?

  57. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 2:27 pm

    Seal Pat~ no politics here, and sorry, but for a military family, no matter how hard you try to NOT take it all , personal,and remain objective, at some point, well, maybe someday you’ll understand. I respect you.

  58. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 2:49 pm

    Vt~well, your Bush quote came as i was ranting.(btw-i usually don’t do, but felt like it today, I and my family have paid our dues and am entitled, the same as anyone.) Already,saw that, thanks , will go back and look, when I have time.
    I spoke on generalizations from what I have observed,and from what you have spoken of and supported and voiced, here,
    As to your response, no, I do not believe it “it is quite irrelevant”. You do not need to “enlighten” me, we may very well, from the sounds of it, be from the same generation, but that didn’t stop me from, as a youngster, supporting our Vietnam vets, POW/MIA, nor does it stop me now.

  59. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 2:51 pm

    oops hit the submit button accidentally, but that’s ok, I’ve got better things to go do, anyhow. Got care packages that need to get put together for troops, and a family that has their Dad home now that needs time spent together.

  60. Rob on June 30th, 2007 2:56 pm

    hey VT, don’t tell me what to do, your lack of any cognitive thought process is what were talking about. Your lack to inform us what you’ve done to support the troops, be patriotic, help the greatest nation in the world is what were asking you. Unless you consider taking cheap shots at the troops/me on a blog is something you consider patriotic, you really do need help. As for posting links to the FAR left websites like the huffington post and pbs. Don’t worry, I won’t be clicking on anything that undermines our troops in the fashion that “your news” and drive by leftist media tries to portray on a daily basis. To be quite honest VTSharon, if I was inept and impervious as you are to your surroundings, I would seriously consider sucide as a viable option to cure my issues.

  61. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 2:59 pm

    Have a great weekend Vt~and thanks for helping those who needed your help, as a former EMT. I too, do volunteer work, other than military. All i would hope is that you would open your ears, heart and eyes and listen to what is being forwarded and shared here, and other milblogs, rather than just to want to dispute, constantly, for whatever your reason is.

  62. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 3:19 pm

    Oh Vt~ one last thing~still did not hear any answers from you about my question as to how we accomplish world peace and the issue of Iraq/GWOT, etc.? Will be here, strapped on and waiting, till then.

  63. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 3:20 pm

    Do you have children, VT?

  64. VTSharon on June 30th, 2007 3:45 pm

    Thanks for the gracious thoughts, Commander Mom, you have a great weekend, too.

    As to accomplishing world peace, if I had the answer for that question, I would not be working this weekend, or any day of the week for that matter, at least not with the need to bring home a paycheck for the mortgage. And nope, no kids.

  65. VTSharon on June 30th, 2007 3:49 pm


    I think for now I’ll just give you the last word on this topic. There’s not much I can say in response to #60, other than enjoy your Saturday evening.

  66. brat on June 30th, 2007 3:59 pm

    I have deliberately refrained from too much commenting on this thread. For me, my energy is far too valuable to be making assumptions back and forth with you VTSharon.

    I know where Rob stands very well, and I know where his energy goes. Same place as mine: Supporting our troops and their mission. For me, that is first, last and always what I choose as my focus.

    The rest is just pure BULL! That’s all folks!

  67. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 4:07 pm

    Hmm… ok, VT, what makes you work thru the weekend? Yeh, I guess none of us have a crystal ball or the answers for world peace,Iraq/ GWOT, etc. huh? Well, I do hope you are blessed with children, someday, if you would like, that is.
    Thanks, I do plan on having an enjoyable weekend with my family, and appreciating every minute,and never forgetting, nor taking for granted, why it is that we are able.

  68. brat on June 30th, 2007 4:14 pm

    CommanderMom. I absolutely agree with the last line of your comment…Coming from a looooooooong line of honourable military heroes as I do, I know firsthand that freedom is most definitely NOT free. And I will always stand WITH our troops and fight for it - with them - when called on, never taking it for granted. That is why I support our troops AND their mission. NOW and ALWAYS!

  69. CommanderMom on June 30th, 2007 4:23 pm

    Brat~perhaps we can talk~Terri & Sue, knows my e-mail, they have my permission to give it to you, if you would like.

  70. Terri on June 30th, 2007 4:53 pm

    Actually Sharon I didn’t concede shit. I don’t agree with the “I support the troops but not the war” AT ALL, nor will I ever. Take yourself for instance… you say you support the troops, yet everything you post here in the comments and everything action you take on this blog and on ASP, points to the exact opposite. I truly feel that the majority of parents and families who have lost soldiers in Iraq, STILL support the mission, as that’s what I’ve been hearing time and time again. No not all of them, but a damn big majority of them. Believe what you wish, that’s your right, but I know how I feel and I truly believe that you can’t support the troops if you don’t support their mission.

  71. brat on June 30th, 2007 5:56 pm

    I agree CommanderMom - of course! Or, you can email ME at:

    That is my public domain email addy..;)

  72. Terri on June 30th, 2007 6:05 pm

    Brat I’ve already sent you CommanderMom’s email address. Check your mailbox!

  73. brat on June 30th, 2007 6:15 pm

    Got it - thanks!

    CommanderMom - check YOUR inbox..rofl

  74. CommanderMom on July 1st, 2007 11:36 am

    Ok guys, sorry, but i am just not done with this one. It definately/obviously strikes a chord with me, can ya tell? hehe
    Ok so, what I am getting,(after going back thru all of this again) is that our pal, VT, and those thinking like him, must think they know more than our troops, b/c they want to bring them home,cut and run,etc. despite what our troops that are there,are screaming/
    asking/ telling us. But, then by his (vt)own admission, he does not have the answers on Iraq/GWOT/ world peace, etc. Is anyone else confused, like I am? I always thought it best to be part of a solution, not part of the problem. If you don’t have or know the answers, then don’t(I personally feel you don’t have the right to) sit back and criticize.
    Also, in trying to follow his logic, that he believes he supports the troops, then why does he feel soo compelled to come here, and other places, and argue wtih, fight with,& speak out against those very same troops he claims to support? He argues the same with the family and friends, here, also of the troops he claims to support. I am baffled by this logic. Ok, he has the right to do so, (and we all know why that is)but, I’m sorry, it doesn’t look like or feel like support to me.

  75. Terri on July 1st, 2007 11:47 am

    I agree CommanderMom, I SO agree. I never have been able to understand Sharon/Nephi/CF/Richard’s (etc, etc)logic, when he/she “claims” to support the troops, yet his/her comments and remarks on this blog and on ASP, clearly show something different.

  76. brat on July 1st, 2007 11:54 am

    Well I see the problem you are having CommanderMom right away. Forget all the verbiage that VTSharon whoever/whatever throws around.

    Answer to your question is this: There is NO “logic” to any of VTSharon’s motor mouth.

    WE all know this and it does cause many consternation as we try and answer WITH logic the ILlogical.

    Can’t be done - ask ANY of our troops.;)

    So, when I come across such people, I usually choose not to waste my breath. Got better things to do.(I am guessing regular readers here know what those “better things” That’s MY choice…

    Hope that helps a BIT CommanderMom…
    Forget logic then you’ll do fine. lol

  77. CommanderMom on July 1st, 2007 12:32 pm

    :) thanks guys!!! Yep, you both are soo right. Happy Sunday!!

  78. SealPatriot on July 2nd, 2007 9:28 am

    What happened to the big debate we were just having?

  79. VTSharon on July 2nd, 2007 10:07 am

    Seal Pat,

    I think everyone just got worn out. In the meantime, I guess it’s just me and the CIC who believe it acceptable to support the troops while, at the same time, disagree with the war. Amazing, I actually agree with something uttered from Bush’s mouth. Go figua!

  80. CommanderMom on July 2nd, 2007 10:16 am

    Hey Seal/VT ~another “go figua”, think I agree with VT!:) “everyone just got worn out”. It’s a topic that’s been around before, and don’t see it going away any time real soon. One of those just agree to disagree things, I guess.

  81. Terri on July 2nd, 2007 10:19 am

    It’s definitely an argument that’s been around at least here and regardless of how much information is provided, some people are stuck in their thought process, without being willing to actually learn and see the things that are occurring and the positives that are happening. I’m not saying that everything is positive by any means, but I do feel that when we’re fed nothing but negatives by the media, it’s hard to comprehend that positive things are occurring, for some.

  82. CommanderMom on July 2nd, 2007 10:40 am

    Yes, Terri I soo agree.

  83. CommanderMom on July 2nd, 2007 11:50 am

    NO, ya know what, I lied! I will never get “worn out” or too tired to fight this issue/argument!!

  84. Terri on July 2nd, 2007 11:52 am

    Me either CommanderMom, me either. Are troops NEED us to continue the “fight” here at home, while they continue the “fight” over there.

  85. CommanderMom on July 2nd, 2007 12:12 pm

    Yep, those have always been my thoughts exactly!! There’s no way in hell I can dare tire here, with what they all do there!!!!

  86. VTSharon on July 2nd, 2007 1:28 pm

    I am going to do you all a favor at this juncture and let this one go for the time being. But not without leaving a crumb of food for thought.

    Were Hillary Clinton elected president and prosecuting a war in some far-away land - a war that you vehemently disagreed with, right down to the core of your very soul - would you nonetheless rally behind Hillary and support the war, the very war that your soul tells you is wrong and rotten through and through?

    If your answer is no, then I have made my point. But if your answer is yes, then I ask further: how do you resolve the conflict between such approval and what your soul tells you?

    PS The foregoing is not stated with an intention to get under anyone’s skin; rather, I just want to understand why you disagree with a position that I and many others find very sensical and rational.

  87. Terri on July 2nd, 2007 1:40 pm

    You know Sharon this has nothing to do with rallying behind a politician, President. That’s NOT what it’s about. It’s about standing behind our Troops and supporting the mission that they’ve been given.

    P.S. I have tried for quite some time now to try understand the reasoning behind why you can’t seem to understand a position that WE feel is very sensical and rational.

  88. brat on July 2nd, 2007 1:52 pm

    My last comment on this thread is:

    No matter who the President of the US is, when they say “go to war….this is your mission”, our troops obey….the same holds true within Canada, or even Britain. The Commander in Chief says “GO”, our troops go…(and yes, that is also a paraphrase of what a career soldier told me recently. ;) Go figure!)

    At that point - deployment - it doesnt matter what any individual soldier believes or agrees with - they GO TO WAR!